Okay. A few more moments for those who haven’t voted.

Well, there are things that come up quite often, so uh in big number one, confidence.

Uh, then we have knowledge and skills, clarity. And then, it’s repeated everywhere, but uh there’s a term I like, it’s budget management that I see. The mandate to act, the power of decision, recognition. There. Note all of that, we’ll come back to it a bit later, it gives us material to discuss the subject.

So, there.

That’s done. before going a bit further, is everyone comfortable with the topic of personal finance? Raise your hand, I’m not judging you.

Yeah.

So, who is comfortable with the topic of personal finance?

There, just to agree, there aren’t many hands. Just to agree on what personal finance means, it covers quite a number of different areas. So, the very basic base is the budget. Then, once you have a budget that’s okay, you have savings. once savings are in place, that’s when you can start investing. in parallel to that, investing is either investing your money or investing your time, so managing debt. And then uh planning, which means being able to project yourself and give yourself some deadlines. That’s what personal finance is, all these aspects. And in fact, when I talk to someone, I say, “Hey, I help people with personal finance,” they say, “Oh, the budget!” Well, in fact, it’s not, it’s not really. so these notions, in fact, these terms, you also find them in organizations, especially in product management, in fact.

I’m going to tell you my story, so uh I am uh In 2018, I was a consultant in an IT services company. and I find myself, following a life accident, I find myself on leave. And regarding this life accident, in fact, it allowed me, it allowed me to reflect a bit more on what I wanted for my future. I had returned to work. And uh I said to myself, “Hey, it would be great if I had the possibility to be able to stop, to be able to say no to things I don’t like and to breathe.” And uh it started like that in a “hey” mode, how could I make money without having to work, so that I can create these options for myself, in fact.

And so I set myself a first horizon. Which was at 45, I am financially free. At 45, I concretely want to have 2000 euros per month in investment income. That’s very concrete, huh. It’s, it’s there or it’s not there.

Yeah. Yeah. put your hand on

Excuse me.

So, I started from that objective, that horizon, perhaps a bit naive, but I told myself, “Come on, I’ll try.” You never know, I’m aiming for the moon and I’ll land on the most beautiful cloud. So, I started from scratch in 2018.

Uh, in 2018, in fact, the observation I had made was that I had uh

over 20 years of experience with money, with my personal finances, but I was always doing the same thing. Always the same thing, which is to put money aside, save, save, save. And so, well, if I wanted to have different results, I had to change something. Yeah.

And so, well, to change things, well, I got a little interested in the system that was my personal finances. So, how it was composed, what opportunities I had. and then go step by step, so first learn, really learn the basics of what I could do in terms of diversification, in terms of investment. to be able to understand the basics of what I was going to play with. to explore the field. So really, at that time, I listened to a lot of podcasts, I read a lot of blogs, I watched a lot of videos, I read a lot of books. Uh there, and in fact, beyond learning, uh what I quickly told myself is that it’s good to learn, but in fact, you have to immediately get into the movement by taking a first step, by having a first experience. And the first experience. I’m going to tell you a little bit about it, so what I did is I opened. The same month, a PEA, uh a crypto wallet and a life insurance policy, I do everything.

Uh so that was my first step. And it also allowed me to understand a little bit how I was doing with this new dynamic. By taking these first steps, well, I was able to start getting feedback. By testing different strategies, by testing different models. To be able to adjust. Also as my progress, my results progressed. To especially observe my reactions. Because in fact, money and personal finance, we talk about finance, but in fact, we talk especially about oneself and one’s relationship to money.

Uh, when I was able to apply, I was also able to review my priorities as I went along. I was able to face uncertainty and I’ll come back to that later, a lot of things happened even now.

I was able to, from an experimental, really pilot approach, start structuring things, to be a bit clearer about the convictions I had, about what I wanted, what I didn’t want. And uh also start to uh put in place a slightly longer-term vision, because now that I knew what I could do in the immediate moment and the first results, I told myself, “Ah, that’s possible.” So, maybe in 5, 10, 20 years, I’ll be able to achieve this, this, this, this. And then well, get the results indeed. in fact, it happened from the first year and every year, I’ll tell you later, I have a tool that allows me to see what results I’ve achieved. And especially, then, from these results, well, what do I do with them?

Normally, that’s where I, I’m talking to people who are product-savvy, that should resonate with you, huh.

It’s good?

So, and I’m insisting a little bit on an aspect, which is that it’s a cycle. That is to say, in fact, there was no sequence: when I learned, I applied, I kept learning something that I adjusted, that I in fact, it was endless. From the moment I started in 2018, in fact, almost all the time, I was doing something new, testing something new, adjusting something I had put in place, and so on and so forth. So, today I’m more in a phase where I learn less because a lot of things have happened, but I still continue to learn things. And so, in fact, what I learned above all is not necessarily to manage my money down to the last penny, in real terms. Because it’s a monetary flow that comes in, goes out, is placed in different places, whatever. In fact, what I learned to manage is above all my resources. That is, to become aware that uh learning to manage my personal finances. That means learning to manage my time, being clear about the time I’m going to invest in what I’m going to learn or in managing my investments. For example, you don’t have the same time uh to devote between financial investments and physical real estate. Similarly, in terms of energy, well, it won’t require the same amount of energy. in terms of margin, well, there are things you’ll be able to do that will be reversible, and then others where you’ll have to be aware of the margin you can allow yourself, whether in loss or in gain. Visibility, certain supports and certain financial products, in fact, they give you visibility on how you will recover the fruits, how it will evolve, etc. So, to be aware, in fact, of when you invest in something, to what extent you know what you’re getting into and if you’re okay with the potential uncertainty, with the lack of visibility. And then the mental load, because in fact, I was saying earlier, finance is about investing money, but it’s especially about one’s relationship with money. And in terms of mental load, you can become more preoccupied by the place money can take in your life, by the problems you can’t manage because you don’t necessarily have control over them, or even that most of the time, when you invest, you have risks. We’ve gone over it a bit, but so it can also come. Also with a certain mental load of telling yourself, well, I’ve done this extra thing, which is a bit new, which is a bit sometimes out of control, how do I manage it with the rest of my life because my life is not an investor, it’s also something else.

And so, at date, well, I had said I wanted to be financially free at 45. I turned 45 last year, I’m not there. Since I’m in front of you, huh.

There, but hope springs eternal. And uh so, to date, I’m not going to give you specific figures because uh we’re not here to brag, in fact. We’re just here to share. But, to give you some information, I have a few thousand indeed in investment income that are generated every year, and it’s growing. There is also uh a significant latent capital gain, meaning that if I sold everything today, what would be the profit that I would manage to get personally? And then, it’s been 5 years now, almost 6 years since I’ve been self-employed, I started investing my company’s treasury, in fact, because I’m self-employed, and in fact, I’m starting to generate financial income from that treasury as well. So, from experience, there are things in place for us. So, I have not achieved financial autonomy, however, I have achieved a form of sustainable autonomy. Which is actually the system I’ve put in place and which holds up despite a certain number of things that happen, which are sometimes in my control, sometimes not at all.

And during uh these 7 years of journey and also uh through the support I can provide, in fact, I noticed that there were four laws that stood out a bit. Which, well, were potentially a framework for understanding what we can experience when we are interested in personal finance. It’s the notion of arbitration, risk, feedback and horizon. Again, normally, product people, you know these terms. Am I wrong?

of questions. a certain number of things that happen, that are sometimes in my comfort zone, sometimes not at all.

And during these seven years, actually, of journey, and also through the coaching I can provide, I actually noticed that there were four laws that stood out a bit, that were, potentially a grid for understanding what we can sometimes experience when we’re interested in personal finance. It’s the notion of arbitration, of risk, of feedback, and of horizon. Again, normally, good people, you know these terms. Am I wrong? You see, there are faces that confirm.

So I’m going to go law after law to explain a bit more what’s behind it and then give a few examples. Arbitration. Arbitration, in fact, as I was telling you earlier, when I started, I had uh 98% liquidity. Liquidity is uh money that is placed in your current accounts, uh your savings accounts, your euro fund, it’s money that earns almost nothing, in fact.

Most of the time, so that you know, liquidity is mainly in current accounts, and that’s not good at all for you. But suddenly, it’s money that’s risk-free. You can take it out anytime, there’s no problem. The amount you have at any given moment is the amount you’ll find a little later.

Uh, as I said earlier, madness is to always do the same thing and expect different results, so of course, I had to change something and I decided to do what we call an arbitration, that is to say, to decide that a sum that was in one place, well, I’m going to change its place. Quite simply. But that’s the beginning of troubles. It’s the beginning of troubles because in fact, well, necessarily to have a return, you had to place it on risky investments. Risky investments, I won’t go into detail but you will have uh levels of risk that are defined by uh the financial market authority and you will therefore have stocks, uh bonds, crypto. You will have plenty of different domains that are considered risky investments but, you will have

the bigger part is uh the return that you can get.

Uh, by making, in fact, this choice, in fact, I went from a default situation to a real concrete, real choice that can impact my patrimony in a general way. So it’s not neutral. to arbitrate, and that’s where it begins. To make this first step, it’s the first step to go further. I was talking about risk a moment ago.

Uh, 2018-2026, not necessarily the best period whatever the placement. We had plenty of different things happening on a macro scale. and for me, the first risk I took, even before talking about macro,

is that I told you earlier that I had opened my PEA in 2018. And in fact, I made the biggest mistake of my life.

The biggest mistake of my life, it was quite simple. In fact, it was to take the money from the PEA and put it all on a single financial security.

In this case, it’s very early. I had 2000 euros in my account, I put everything on a French bank, I won’t say which one, because I don’t know if there are any bankers here.

And what happened is that after not even three days, the stock actually fell by about 10-20%. 20%. And then I thought, wow. I’m losing money. It’s hot. Damn.

What am I doing? And in fact, what happened is that, I had heard, yeah, banks are serious, no problem, systemically speaking, it holds up, it serves dividends, I was in a dividend logic besides, so I said, okay, let’s go.

And in fact, by making this move, I hadn’t sufficiently trained myself in the stock market, in fact, I hadn’t sufficiently trained myself in good investment practices. And what I did is that I I assumed the loss at that moment. That is to say, I sold. I said, okay, it’s fine. I lost, I don’t know, 50, 100 euros in the story. I said, it’s good, I’m going. It’s the cost of learning. But you won’t catch me again, in fact. I took the time to train myself again, I just read a book, that’s a bit of a reference on the subject, and then I started again, but with a completely different strategy. Second story, there was the pandemic, as you know, in 2020. And in March 2020, I don’t know if you were looking at the financial markets at that time, but it was the big one.

It all went to hell. My PEA, it went down by -50%.

There. Minus 50% for someone who can panic, who can have the emotional reflex, in fact, of fear, quite simply. In fact, you tell yourself, ah, it’s, it’s hot, I have to sell.

I didn’t sell. I did something completely counter-intuitive. I continued to invest.

And I don’t regret it because today, my PEA, in fact, it’s performing in two digits since 2018.

You too. But suddenly, the risk, it’s there. It can uh control, uh it can control you, but it’s better that you control it, in fact.

There will always be risk, you have to learn to manage it, to navigate with it.

Without feedback, you build a fiction. Does that speak to anyone?

Yeah, no. Does it speak to anyone?

Does it speak to anyone? I’ll raise my hand if that speaks to you. Okay, that works. It’s basic, but in reality, without feedback, we can build a utopia.

Uh, desires and vain desires and lose time and energy. Why am I talking about this? Because earlier I told you, I want 2000 euros per month in investment income. and in fact, the first thing I put in place was feedback. And in a very regular way, every six months, I was making a point, saying, okay, well, compared to my strategy, my objectives, where am I concretely? And the fact of being very concrete and real Well, I was able to adjust my roadmap as I went along. And between my initial plan for 2018 and my current plan for 2026, it has absolutely nothing to do with it. Strictly nothing to do.

Fourth law to remember, it’s the subject of the horizon. In fact,

uh, I had set myself a first horizon which was 2018-2025, and I had my 2000 euros per month. In fact, by walking and advancing, I realized that in fact I had several horizons.

And these horizons, in fact, well, suddenly they open up the possibility of several opportunities, of several investments that are adapted and of several risks that you can take because you are on different horizons.

For me, in fact, the first horizon, which is right in front of me, is the very short term, so it’s the current year. The medium term is the next three years, the long term is the next 15 years, and then the very long term is when I will be, in fact, 80, 90 years old.

Well, suddenly, it allows me to structure my finances with these different horizons and the different strategies that will allow me to access, what I want.

So, if your horizon is blurry, if you don’t have a horizon, your strategy is false.

Or if you have several horizons but you confuse them, it’s also false.

Okay?

Okay, I’ll continue. So,

this is where it becomes interesting because suddenly, what I do with my personal finances, what you do with your personal finances, in fact, it’s what we find in teams and in products, in your organizations as well.

Uh, to try to refine, in fact, the reflex behaviors that one can have regarding these different personal finances. I uh drew, in fact, uh archetypes. So we have five of them.

The squirrel, the saboteur, the roller coaster, the visionary, and the short-termist. These are behaviors, these are profiles, so these are uh reactions that we can have in a situation of stress, of danger, it’s not necessarily something that characterizes someone in a definitive and uh and identity way. It’s really behaviors. And so the squirrel, well, he’ll tend to accumulate. The saboteur will tend to break things. The roller coaster, he will tend to uh be to change pace, in fact.

The visionary to look very far, and the short-termist to look just in front of him. Now, these are behaviors that also have advantages.

The, for the squirrel, in fact, the one who who accumulates, well, in fact, he secures himself, he protects himself, in fact.

The saboteur, he sees the obstacles. And sometimes he runs into them, but he still sees them.

The roller coaster, he’s more of a story of of regulation. The visionary will have at least a vanishing point at some point, and the short-termist will be more able to optimize as he goes along.

These are the archetypal behaviors that we can find in personal finance, but we also find them in teams.

And there I’m going to set aside uh not necessarily an advantage, but rather a disadvantage. And you’ll tell me if you recognize yourself.

the behavior in your teams or around you, or in your organization. So the squirrel, in your opinion, what is it as a disadvantage?

The one who accumulates.

The debt. No, we’ll come to debt later.

No delegation. No innovation.

No investment.

No risk-taking.

Yeah, he always does the same thing, but especially he does a lot of things. In fact, he accumulates things to do.

And he doesn’t do it. He does everything. Infinite backlog.

The saboteur, he’s more about, indeed, technical debt. So, creating conditions, in fact, that will sabotage the product later.

Potentially.

The roller coaster, so it’s the unstable side. At some point, we were given a horizon and it was very clear, but there, suddenly, we have to go faster than expected.

The visionary, he’s the one who has a long horizon, very far, far, quite far. Wow.

with the risk of losing people along the way.

And the short-termist, since he just looks in front of him, he’s more focused on optimizing the moment, the instant. Not necessarily thinking about what’s going to happen later.

So, when I give you these archetypes, are there any of you who recognize yourselves, just don’t tell me which ones, but are there any of you who recognize behaviors in your teams or around you? Yeah, some people are raising their hands. Okay, that works.

Okay, it works.

Thank you for your confirmation.

So, good news is that we can still hack the archetypes, in fact. I told you, they are behaviors, so what’s interesting is to see how these behaviors, we can juggle them, we can uh uh give them uh elements or we can just balance them. So for the squirrel who will tend to accumulate, we’re going to try to work on arbitration, on prioritization. On the fact of throwing, on the fact of choosing. for the roller coaster, so on the notion of speed and change of potentially also direction. It’s risk management to do that.

So trying to stabilize, to hold, to hold the decisions, the agreements.

On the saboteur who will tend to break, to see certain obstacles but to break what is happening. We’re going to try to do feedback on what is happening regularly.

To measure, to iterate, to adjust. And then for the horizon part, for the short-termists and visionaries who are not adjusted, in fact, on the right distance to have, well, there, we’re going to try to go on the notion of multiple horizons to clarify, to frame, to temporize.

All that, I think that it speaks to you in the context of, especially, a framework, I’m not going to list it here, it’s not the subject, but it’s just to help you get some perspective on

these laws, in fact, what they potentially allow to give as a balance to this type of behavior.

And uh regarding the laws that I mentioned to you, so arbitration, risk, feedback, and horizon, in a very concrete way in your teams.

It’s, of course, for the arbitration part, the prioritization.

For risk, it’s the company culture, in fact, it’s going to be the right to error, experimentation, hypothesis.

For feedback, it’s going to be the fact of iterating, the product loop.

And for the horizon, well, it’s the fact of having clarity on the horizons and therefore defining the strategy in relation to these horizons. balance this type of behavior.

And, regarding the laws that I just mentioned, so the arbitration risk, feedback and horizon, in a very concrete way in your teams. It’s, of course, for the arbitration part, the prioritization. For the risk, it’s the company culture, actually. It’s going to be the right to make mistakes, experimentation, hypothesis. For feedback, it’s going to be the act of iterating, the product loop. And for the horizon, well, it’s having clarity on the horizons and setting up a strategy in relation to that horizon.

I keep it because it’s for people who know the subject.

I’m making a parenthesis, if you want the slides at the end, you can send me an email, thank you. Shall we continue? Is that okay? I didn’t lose you?

Come on! We’re moving forward. So, earlier I was talking to you about sustainable autonomy, so it’s the one that holds. And in fact, it holds because it’s an ecosystem. It’s a system that lives, that isn’t frozen. And that’s what makes autonomy hold. It’s because precisely we take into account a certain number of elements on what we put in place but also what is around us. So this ecosystem, actually, it allows for three levels of autonomy. The first is at the individual level. With the notion of margin that you could have, the limits that you could set, and the arbitrations that you could take at the individual level. But you’re not alone, actually, in this system. You’re often in teams, and these teams are often in organizations. So we need to take into account that autonomy at your level won’t be enough in this ecosystem. It will be enough when the other autonomies are in place. And so, in terms of team autonomy, what will be interesting to have is the vision. It’s shared arbitrations, so exchanges and the act of making a decision at a given moment. And collective risk-taking.

And finally, at the organizational level, it’s to become aware of this level of autonomy. What do we put in place so that the system allows for autonomy? what is the temporality, the temporalities that are put in place, the horizons that are put in place, and above all the coherence between the different autonomies that we’re going to put in place in the organization. I repeat once again, because it’s very important. An organization that wishes for its team to be autonomous without giving it the right to make mistakes, a margin, the ability to breathe, to make decisions at its own level, it can dream for a long time to have a level of autonomy, it won’t have it.

And so, the four laws that I was talking about earlier, the four systemic laws, actually, they’re kind of infused into the autonomous self-esteem.

Uh, to finish, I’m going to leave you with this element, a bit visual, concrete that you can take with you. The autonomy portfolio, so in this case, four elements. So, the capacity is, what do I know how to do, what can I do? Security is what I put in place to continue to hold. To move forward, what will allow me to decide in complete security. The bets. I often heard the English term ‘bet’, well, in French it’s ‘pari’. So, what bets am I taking on the future?

To be able to move towards my goal, to be able to move forward. And then, the vision, where am I projecting myself? Earlier I was saying, well, I want to have 2000 euros per year, per month, sorry. And that, for me, is a partial vision element, because it’s just a numerical element. What interested me was what it allowed me to achieve and attain, to be able to reach that goal. So, to be able to rest, to be able to say no, to be able to do lots of other things besides work. That’s my vision.

And there’s an element that’s implicit.

It’s dependencies.

In your system, actually, you’re not alone. You have to take into account, in a very clear and very explicit way, even if it’s implicit, the dependencies you actually have.

And what you can do with these dependencies. Because they’re there. You have no choice.

And we’ll see a bit later how that can be linked in organizations. So, my autonomy portfolio regarding my personal finances, well, actually, the capacity I was able to develop. I developed it because I learned, I was able to popularize everything I learned. And that allowed me to also develop the capacity to hold in uncertainty.

On the security aspect. Before starting the investments, I had set up a buffer savings. And that allows me to always be sure to have something if something happens, if I have a problem with what I’ve put in place in my investment. I also have, I also have my main residence. Well, that’s it, these are security elements that are there, I can count on them. And that gives me more assurance to move forward on my other subjects.

The bets I made, well, it’s the different investments I was able to choose at a given moment, that I was able to invest. Or that I was able to disinvest, meaning at some point, bets are not necessarily all winners, there are losing bets. You have to be ready to accept that.

And, the vision, is to stay on course, even without immediate results. because actually the road is long.

The road is very long.

And you have to know how to celebrate your victories, even small ones, because it gives a very positive sign that we’re going there. And then, dependencies, well, in this case, in my personal finance story, it’s uh,

everything around me, the macroeconomic system, over which I have no control and which directly impacts my performance. I can’t do anything about that, I can only deal with it.

And the other dependency I could have, that I could have had, but that’s not the choice I made, is to work with a professional to move forward on this subject. So it turns out that I do have a professional, but it’s on another part. The main part is done by me. And so, it’s also about navigating with uh, the events that can happen, over which we have no control.

On your autonomy portfolio, yours, in your teams and in your organizations, it’s to develop the capacity to deliver whatever happens. Whatever happens. And so, to be clear on your roadmap, your priorities, your dependencies.

It’s in terms of safety margin, the capacity.

That’s what will allow you to have room to do things, to make bets, to do whatever you want, if you know that you can count on security elements concerning your team, your product, your organization. We’re talking about it?

The bets. Dare to experiment, dare to create future images, dare to make choices. Choices that are not necessarily always profitable, but they will add something.

The vision.

The horizon you set, the horizons you set, the boundaries you give yourself. Being able to hold on and have that horizon in sight, despite the short-term ambient noise.

And then the dependencies you have, which are the other teams you work with or don’t work with. It’s the sponsors, it’s the management. It’s a lot of other elements, we can list many others, but all these elements, you have to be able to navigate with them in your journey.

We’re nearing the end.

I’m on time.

Uh, what I take away from these years, from my journey, my path, I wanted to achieve a result that I didn’t get, but I still moved forward, and I also created a system that holds. A system that holds because, I was able to move forward with a certain number of elements like, who I am.

how I react, what I’ve learned, what I’ve been able to apply, what results I’ve been able to get.

And so, when we talk about personal finance, move beyond the subject of money itself to think about resources and to think about the system to put in place.

And if there’s one question I invite you to leave with, it’s your decisions, actually, what do they say about you, about your team, about your teams, about your organization?

What do your decisions say in terms of autonomy?

And that’s where it all comes together.

Our personal finances, it doesn’t talk about money, it talks about us.

Sustainable autonomy is not an object, it’s not a label. It’s a way to be able to hold on in uncertainty, it’s above all a way to inhabit one’s resources, to be clear about them, to have them in sight. to be able to use them, to be clear about one’s choices and relationships.

And then, if I had to leave with one invitation, I invite you to revisit, to visit if it’s not the case, or to revisit your autonomy portfolio, whether it’s for your personal finances, your team, your product, your organization.

And I thank you.

I hope I didn’t bore you too much. Thank you.

Question.

Did I put you to sleep?

Thank you for coming just before the lunch break. It’s not an easy subject. I actually wrote this talk for Folkcon, for your information. and it’s the first time I’ve played it, so, I hope it brought you some ideas.

Hello. Yes. Thank you for the conference, it was interesting. there was a slide where you had the four pillars with Horizon at the end.

Yeah.

That one, just after. I have the impression that there are still quite a few dependencies between each part. For example, the strategy, you’re going to have to prioritize, the product, you’re going to have to review your strategy, a lot of things like that. how do you take into account all these elements that intermingle, how do you structure that kind of thing?

Okay. in fact, the idea of that slide was really to say, finally, we’re trying to set up a system, and what are the laws that, impact the system a little bit, and so, effectively, they are quite, they are close.

At the same time, they’re different enough that we can verify them one against the other. in the autonomy portfolio model, which is a kind of declination. what will be interesting to look at is, where are we actually in each element, so on the capacity part, the security part, the uh, the bets part, the vision part, and the dependency part. what’s the state, so to speak, of the situation? What makes this asset work well and, for once, it’s not worth over-investing? And on the contrary, what’s struggling today?

And in relation to these elements that are struggling, is it a subject of arbitration, is it a subject of horizon, is it a subject of feedback, or is it a subject of risk that is not being taken into account? So there’s a kind of interconnection, effectively. But, each element is self-sufficient to be an element of analysis and concentration of where we are. Did I answer your question? Oh, thanks. Another question, perhaps. Any other questions?

Okay.

We’re going to close, aren’t we?

Okay.

Yes.

Thank you for the different topics covered. Just move back a tiny bit on that slide, please.

Yeah. Oh, great.

Uh, when you talked about this whole slide with all the elements, I thought, okay, but there’s a missing external aspect, and that’s probably normal because you’re talking about autonomy. and when I say external aspect, on the markets, I’ll take an example, something happens that we absolutely can’t control, or it’s a more enterprise/product example, a competitor on something. Is that for you completely external or is it included in one of the five blocks and I don’t see it?

Yeah, that’s it. It’s actually part of the dependencies.

Because even if it’s external to the company, you’re part of an even more general ecosystem than the organization. And, actually, you have no control over your competitor, you have no control over your customer. And, for once, it’s part of the dependencies. Got it?

Thank you. it was in the continuation of Didier’s question. so there are things over which we have no control, but on the other hand, is it that as much as our finances for the product, our choices can influence the environment? We can choose, consciously, this or that investment, with other values than economic, ecological, social, for example. That gives us a leverage on those choices, right?

Absolutely. so I didn’t talk about it, but it’s a very good point, indeed. in the different options we have, the fact of making a choice by saying, well, finally, I’m going to arbitrate my money on investments that correspond more to my values, is indeed a way to impact the system that, interacts with those values. And, it’s a choice. But that means that choice is also made consciously of the vision, of the horizon of the vision you can have. So, and that can be a bet, for once. That is to say that, in 2018 when I started, I had written an article about, sustainable finance. I had looked a bit at what it gave. So between 2018 and 2026, it has evolved a lot, a lot. There are many more products, there are many more products that are interesting. Because what happens with, notably global warming, actually, there’s really an even more pressing interest in what will make companies last. It’s a very stupid subject, but what makes a random company that today only operates on capitalism continue to last? It’s a real subject. And so, it’s a choice, however. And it’s a bet. And you have to assume it. Okay.

One last question, anyone else? We’re going to start. We’re going to start. Thank you very much. Thank you.